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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Dogs and Cats

Irrelevant musings: Are there any cats in Dead tunes other than China Cat and LLR? (Dead cat trivia: Jerry taught his cat to eat melon balls. Source: Phil's book.)

Any other Dead dogs other than the kicked one in Tennessee Jed and the unfed one in Touch of Grey? Or the Yellow Dog, Family Dog, and "there's Otis"? (Dead dog trivia: Dogs got their own backstage passes. Source: I forget.)

Honorable mentions: Cats Under the Stars and Grateful Dawg.

Probably a bunch more, but that's all that comes to mind. So at the moment, only counting songs, it's Cats 2, Dogs 2. I'm wondering if someone can break the tie with better instant recall.




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-10-29 12:10:06

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Poster: boltman Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

See the Dog Star shinin'

(kind of cheatin' here, but the only one I could think of)

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Or "where's the Dog Star," but I'd rule that out on the basis of (a) it's not an actual dog, and (b) I always thought it was Dark Star and I think it's better that way. I thought it was meant as a joke. "Where's the Dark Star?" when there was no chance you were EVER going to hear one.


This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-10-29 13:50:40

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Oct 30, 2011 2:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

'The Dog Star' refers to Siruis, the brightest star in the constellation of Canis Major. Canis Major and Canis Minor are the hunting dogs of Orion the hunter, the constellation of which is close by.

Therefore these are mythological dogs and just as 'real' as any other dogs which may appear in songs. Just because they are mentioned in songs as opposed to Greek mythology, does not make them any more real.

More spurious is why any sailor would try and navigate by a star that moves around the sky.
Most people would navigate by Polaris (the north star) or the Southern Cross which always points to the south pole.

This post was modified by Jacky Hughes on 2011-10-30 21:21:39

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 30, 2011 11:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Maybe that's why he's lost.

But in the song, it's clearly a star, not a dog. While lyrics have a lot of leeway for interpration, "counting stars by candlelight" would not reasonably mean "walking through Beverly Hills during a blackout and seeing how many movie stars are out," and it would not count on a list of gods, even though there are many mythologies where stars and gods are equated; and the "spiral light of Venus" could not be counted on a list of plants or insects based on the argument that it refers to a firefly spiraling around inside a Venus Flytrap, and fireflies and Venus Flytraps are just as real as planets/stars. So, too, does the Dog Star refer to a star in the sky, not a canine, and hence cannot go on a list of Deadly doggies.

If, on the other hand, the line had gone, "where's the dog star? Where's his bone? He's a lost Fido, Orion wants him home" ... well, you'd have a point.

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Oct 31, 2011 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Interesting

"where's the dog star? Where's his bone? He's a lost Fido, Orion wants him home"

As it is your quiz, you can allow or disallow whatever you feel. That's fair enough.

But I would rather be 'wrong' and allow my imagination to take whatever metaphorical or pictoral interpretation of music, lyric, poetry or prose that it wishes. As opposed to having it constrained by 'correct' and literal translation (and stops my mind from wandering, where it will go).

What make you of this lyric, I wonder (sorry, went a bit robthewordsmith on you there) ?

"While the storyteller speaks
a door within the fire creaks
suddenly flies open
and a girl is standing there"

This post was modified by Jacky Hughes on 2011-10-31 21:07:56

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 31, 2011 7:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Interesting

a) Well, there was this trap door in the fireplace, see, and this girl used it, and you should have seen the look on her face
b) He's telling a really steamy story to a bunch of guys, so they're thinking about a hot girl
c) None of the above

I get your point, but allusiveness jumps off from the concrete. "Dog star" might have feelings or ideas that jump off of it that relate to the word "dog" (rather than, say, North Star, which would fit the rhythm but give a different feeling). Still, dog modifies star; star doesn't modify dog. Of course, that may not matter to any given individual ...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 31, 2011 3:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Sailors did navigate by stars other than Polaris. Greek sailors had charts showing the heights of different stars above the horizon at different times of year and could use this knowledge to steer their ships by.

The astrolabe, or ‘star grasper’ was based on a star map drawn up by the 2nd century BC Greek astronomer Hipparchus. The map was engraved on a disk of brass or bronze 10 to 50 centimetres in diameter, with a pointer, called an alidade, mounted at the centre of the disk. A bright star's altitude above the horizon was measured using the alidade and a scale engraved on the back rim of the astrolabe.

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Poster: boltman Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

I too was convinced it was Dark Star for years...until I found the annotated lyrics online. Amazed at how many lyrics I was positive about that were Dead wrong.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Me too. And for the most part I still like my versions better :-)

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 29, 2011 11:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats (I've Got A Tiger By The Tail!)

"I've Got A Tiger By The Tail" was played on June 11, 1969 by Garcia, Lesh, Hart and Constanten (with John Dawson, David Nelson and Peter Grant) at a concert billed as "Bobby Ace And His Cards From The Bottom Of The Deck." No known tape of the performance exists.

Lyrics By: Owens, Howard
Music By: Owens, Howard
I've got a tiger by the tail it's plain to see
I won't be much when you've got through with me
Well I'm losing weight and I'm turning mighty pale
Looks like I've got a tiger by the tail
Well I thought the day I met you you were meek as a lamb
Just the kind to fit my dreams and plans
Now the pace we're living takes the wind from my sails
And it looks like I've got a tiger by the tail
Well every night you drag me where the bright lights are found
There ain't no way to slow you down
I'm about as helpless as a leaf in a gale
And it looks like I've got a tiger by the tail

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 29, 2011 4:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats (I've Got A Tiger By The Tail!)

DON RICH!

vhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrvFIwpAzUU

And extra bonus fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERW8z8Y6MHk&;feature=related



This post was modified by bluedevil on 2011-10-29 23:06:07

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Watch out strange cat people the little red rooster is on the prowl....

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

A cat's meow and a cow's moo, I can recite them all....

This post was modified by RBNW....new and improved! on 2011-10-29 15:14:26

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 29, 2011 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet:

"And that 'Hound broke down and left us all stranded,
In downtown Birmingham"

and how about a greyhound?

"I straddled that Greyhound and rode him past Raleigh,
And on across Caroline"

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Oct 29, 2011 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

I believe those both refer to a bus, not a dog per se. Survey says? (buzzzz)

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Poster: dark.starz Date: Oct 31, 2011 1:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

I recall the first time i met Garcia; backstage at the Frost 05/06/89 after the show we were sitting at one of the picnic tables when Jer and Manasha sat down while Jerry munched down on a grilled steak.

Weir had two rather large dogs in his tent that first appeared to be wolves and upon closer examination were some type of a Huskie Shepard mixed breed with a loving connection to both.

Intimidating to say the least.




This post was modified by dark.starz on 2011-10-31 20:48:14

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Oct 31, 2011 2:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

No Rob, that show was a full 5 years before you attended your first show.

Why lie to the good folks here?

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 29, 2011 12:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

you're correct, i was just trying to get extra points for the hounds. i wonder what the stats look like right now.

"We had motor trouble that turned into a struggle
Halfway across Alabam'
Well that hound broke down and left us all stranded
In downtown Birmingham

Right away I brought me a through train ticket
Ridin' across Mississippi clean
And I was on that midnight flyer out of Birmingham
Smoking into New Orleans"

clearly talking about a bus

This post was modified by rdenirojb87 on 2011-10-29 19:30:52

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Oct 29, 2011 2:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

Obviously not even a dead song - chuck berry

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 29, 2011 3:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats, Promised Land

I know that, but did anyone say covers don't count?

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Well I ain't superstitious, black cat crossed my path....

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats Tally

And the final-to-date results are in! (Now why won't this appear on the bottom where it ought to be?!?)

There are more cats in the singular, and more dogs coming in packs. Which makes total sense. Apparently the GD understood the essential nature of the beasts -- dogs are social, cats walk alone!

Cats Singular: 8 (China Cat, He's Gone, US Blues, Throwin Stones, Little Red Rooster, Ain't Superstitious, Same Thing, Mighty Quinn by implication -- if there's a meow there's a cat)

Dogs Singular: 6 or 7 (Tennessee Jed, Touch of Grey, IKYR early version, She's Mine, Walkin the Dog, Same Thing, Row Jimmy if Julie "is a dog, maybe a Beagle" -- never thought of it that way, but as the owner of a beagle mix, it makes sense)

Dogs with Specific Numbers: 24 (20 in Friend of the Devil, 4 in Franklin's Tower)

Multiple dogs and hounds: All over the place, baying and piling and howling and being doggish

Repeat of rules for those who might contest:

- Lions, tigers, dire wolves, werewolves and Greyhound buses do not count.
- Covers are fine cuz the band picked 'em
- GD offshoots (JGB, etc) are Honorable Mention
- Dogs walking across the stage, appearing in bad jokes, or howling at the start of Dark Star (trying to make it Dog Star?) are Honorable Mention

Conclusion: GD music is good for both dog and cat people. And bird watchers and wolf people, too, but we're not going there. And werewolves.




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2011-10-30 03:29:30

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats Tally

Dog Star appears in both parts of Sailor/Saint.

Sirius-ly.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 9:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats Tally

Ha ha. But it's a star, not a dog. It could only qualify as a dog if they performed it for ancient Greeks. Though I guess you could siriusly argue that any Sailor Saints at the Greek had a real dog in the dog star.

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Poster: questionoflife Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

"I'd rather drink muddy water and sleep in a hollow log
Than to stay here in Frisco, be treated like a dog"
(IKYR, Fillmore West 5/15/70)

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Poster: polarized blue Date: Oct 29, 2011 4:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

What about "A for that Ark, that wonderful boat" didn't all the animals come two by two, so that has to have 2 cats and 2 dogs aboard. So a tie, if that counts...? And I bid you Good Night. Well, I know it probably doesn't count, but first thing I could think of after some great team work by the gang here. The first one I actually thought of was He's Gone, but then someone beat me to it. Lots of good ones here, good thread.

Hey wait a minute!! I shot my dog because he barked at you, Valerie, won't you be true to me? Well, Jerry Garcia Band, I suppose that might count, AltheaRose?

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Rat cat alley roll them bones, need that cash to feed that Jones. ....

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Aren't you on a roll!

Walkin the dog
I'm just a walkin the dog ...

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Bell the cat, trap the rat, ball the Jack, chew the fat....

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 5:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Well all the dogs begin to bark, and all the hounds begin to howl....

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Poster: questionoflife Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Are we talking just common dogs and cats, or would this include other members of the canis family (e.g. the dire wolf) or any of the big cats (e.g. the lion in Samson & Delilah)?

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 29, 2011 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

lions should count, as they are members of the cat family. they're just big hungry kitties.

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Poster: bailey-g Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

I think 'julie' from row jimmy is a dog. Maybe even a Beagle.

As far as teaching a cat goes,its more of a take what they already do and run with it kinda thing. Same book says he also had em fetching.
Used to have one that would fetch. She did it,I encouraged it. Cats are psychedelic characters for sure.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 5:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile!

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Oct 29, 2011 7:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Hey thats my line...

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Poster: ice9freak Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Trailed by twenty hounds

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Of course. Well that sure puts the dogs ahead!

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Poster: ice9freak Date: Oct 29, 2011 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Further hound-age:

"Moonlight wails as hound dogs bay" (lazy river road)

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 29, 2011 5:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Most of the cats that you meet on the street speak of true love ....

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Now, I will not count that one! Unless they're "speaking" LLR-style. The others, yes. Notice the plural for dogs (in a pile) and singular for cat (on a tin roof). Dogs are definitely pulling ahead.

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Poster: turnphilup Date: Oct 29, 2011 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

How about the dog who barks in response to the first notes of Dark Star on the Veneta show?

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-08-27.sbd.hollister.2199.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 29, 2011 7:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Do china cats count?
Or catfish?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 29, 2011 8:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

No dire wolves, lions, roosters, crows, nuthatches, or guinea pigs. Just plain ol cats and dogs.

Catfish John is a guy. But if it was a cat, it could go in the Honorable Mention category, since it's JGB -- unless the Dead played it. Did they?

China Cat I already counted. Hunter referred to it being inspired by a cat walking on his belly to Jupiter, so it clearly refers to an actual cat. And no one can prove otherwise.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Oct 29, 2011 11:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Dogs and Cats

Oh, come on. Then we'd have to leave out the Werewolves of London!

And if you exclude wolves, not only do you leave the Dire Wolf at the door, you also boot Cassidy:
"I have seen where the wolf has slept by the silver stream."

Lions don't get mentioned much, except for a few references to lions' dens (in Samson, Minglewood & Terrapin)...
Tigers are pretty rare too - there's the "saint of circumstance, just a tiger in a trance." And of course, in Schoolgirl, Pigpen just wants to "put a tiger in your sweet tank!" (And of course, there's Tiger Rose...)

The Same Thing is an equal-opportunity song: the same old thing "makes a tom cat fight every night" and "makes a bulldog hug a hound." I Ain't Superstitious also features howling dogs and black cats...

Hounds show up every so often, even aside from the Friend of the Devil's 20 pursuers, and the hounds that begin to howl in Little Red Rooster. In She's Mine, "the way she acts makes a rabbit hug a hound," and of course in Lazy River Road, the "moonlight wails as hound dogs bay, but never quite catch the tune." And then in Franklin's Tower, the winds "like four lean hounds the lighthouse keep." And even in Unbroken Chain, "I could only hear the preacher and the baying of his hounds."

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2011-10-29 18:14:53